Re: <nettime> Support Palestine Action and go to jail ...

[Colin Hodson via nettime-l <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>]

Agree Keith, we can mark Oct 7, but why stop there? If we mark all that
comes before, the colonial project is laid out in a way Oliver may not be
comfortable with either.

best,
Colin


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On Sun, 13 Jul 2025 at 23:23, Keith Sanborn via nettime-l <
nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote:

> Oh, did we forget that genocide is bring carried out against the
> Palestinians by the official policies and actions of the IDF and the
> actions of terrorist “settlers” with impunity and with the explicit support
> of the IDF as well as terrorist organizations like AIPAC who work
> tirelessly to promote the military support of Israel by the US which makes
> this possible?
>
> Keith Sanborn
>
> > On Jul 13, 2025, at 5:49 AM, Oliver Gassner via nettime-l <
> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote:
> >
> > Am Sa., 12. Juli 2025 um 19:09 Uhr schrieb Patrice Riemens <
> > patrice@puscii.nl>:
> >
> >>
> >> Oliver,
> >> That Hamas is a terrorist organisation is generally well known to the
> >> readers of both Nettime and The Guardian, the latter ritually
> mentioning 7
> >> October in every article about the Gaza situation. So your making Owen
> >> Jones' opinion piece for 'a little less convincing' because it does not
> >> mention it must be read in my opinion as 'this whole Owen Jones stand by
> >> Palestine Action piece is biased, pro-terrorist bullshit'.
> >>
> >
> > Patrice,
> >
> > Well, I can hardly tell you what has to happen in your brain when you
> read
> > my words.
> > If you knew me, you'd know, that if I had meant that I'd have written
> that.
> >
> > A line like "being pro-Palestine does not of course mean one is pro-Hamas
> > and it's actions" would have been enough.
> >
> > NOT mentioning Hamas at all seems ... negligent if not... intentional.
> > I would even refrain from suggesting the one or the other.
> >
> > Also, showing understanding for terrorist actions does not condone them.
> >
> > Let's look at the argument analytically.
> >
> > It is: "Being pro-Palestine does not mean you are a terrorist."
> > (The article ends here ;)
> > Let us continue waking Socrates and Plato from the dead.
> > "Now, why would one think so?"
> > "Because in Gaza there is a semi-administrative semi-military/terrorist
> > group called Hamas that has been attacking Israel for years, is sworn to
> > destroy Israel and (is said to have) orchestrated the October attacks
> that
> > mainly targeted civilians and included killing kids and raping women"
> > "Ah, so pro-Palestinian means pro-Hamas?"
> > "No, many Palestinians are against Hamas but do not dare to speak out for
> > fear of being killed by Hamas. Being pro-Palestinian means, that one is
> > opposed to the death and starvation that the plaestinians both in gaza
> and
> > the west bank are subjected to."
> > "Ah, so I can be anti-terrorist, anti-Hamas and pro Palestinian?"
> > "Yup."
> > "I get your argument now."
> > ===
> > But you are of course welcome to think whatever you want, as long as you
> do
> > not claim that your thoughts reflect reality.
> >
> > Oliver
> >
> >
> >> ------------------------------
> >> *From: *"Oliver Gassner" <fraktal@gmx.de>
> >> *To: *"<nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> >> collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets" <
> >> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>
> >> *Cc: *"Patrice Riemens" <patrice@puscii.nl>
> >> *Sent: *Saturday, 12 July, 2025 16:50:52
> >> *Subject: *Re: <nettime> Support Palestine Action and go to jail ...
> >>
> >> Well, the word Hamas (which is rather undoubtedly a terrorist
> organization
> >> - not only after the October attacs) and also differentiate between
> Hamas
> >> and 'ordinary Palestinians' would have do the (otherwise very good)
> >> argument, a whole lot of good.
> >> Without that mention, I fear, it is a little less convincing.
> >>
> >>> Am Mi., 9. Juli 2025 um 15:20 Uhr schrieb Patrice Riemens via
> nettime-l <
> >>> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ... and never mind the Suffragettes!
> >>>
> >>> Original to:
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/09/palestine-action-britain-support-protest-law
> >>
> >>
> >> ....
> >>
> > --
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> > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
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> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
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>
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